Would it be possible to try it with the wings down (as in show us a picture of it that way)?
Also, could you just use 2D-terrains as the backdrop? That would make it easier to judge as a "logo" at least for me, since I usually think of logos as somewhat flat structures more than threedimensional elements.

Ehm... *radio* commercials? ;)

Seriously, though, I fear this may be far too complex for use as a "small logo", as it would risk not being recognizable at all when resized. :/

Anyhow, thanks for the source files! :D
I'll definitely try to come up with some suggestions of my own...

Logo usage:

* Official papers (like press releases and contracts... emails, power points etc.)
* Home pages
* Game packaging (small logo, not the actual cover)
* Booklets
* Blush doll attachments
* Radio commercials

Well where do you use logo?
(Firm logo, and posters / cover art made separately)

One very handy thing to know: for what uses is this "logo" meant to be?

About the separate elements:

* Gave Matti the elements (and some extras)

About Antarctica in logo:

* Isn't necessary. Mountain or iceberg would be nice but only makes the logo higher :D.

About schwarze sonne (as a threat):

* The nazi threat from above (as an ufo *wink wink*). Not threat for the penguin but for Antarctica.
* Tilting not necessary but can give the feel of UFO hanging over
* Tilting also reflects the threat to the "fun" of the logo :P

About the composition as a whole:

* Logo can be fairly detailed but the main elements must be visible from far away too (as you can see the penguin and schwarze sonne, Antarctica is another thing...)
* This logo emphasises the penguin and schwarze sonne (I would be happy if I could find something more appropriate under the penguins feet)

Colours and materials:

* Saturated colours on purpose (especially trying to make a feeling of darkness lighted with bright light and smooth ice)
* Texture of the schwarze sonne logo -> suggested by Matti (plain schwarze sonne looked too plain) Texture choice was random (general stone texture, can be replaced easily).

Forms:

* Thanks for the penguin shape comment :D
* Antarctica shape would work nicely (would have to make the geometry for it if you don't have it already)

Different versions:

* Matti posted some versions (not releasing the source file yet)
* Camera can be easily moved around -> just ask for different versions

Poster version suggestions:

* Like the latter one with moon and all (because the colours) but the first ones idea is better I think (doesn't reveal too much)

About penguin wings:

* http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Penguin-and-Chick-Print-C10282801.jpeg
* Also the lovered wings would make the penguin more higher and this is not what the logo needs (the penguin is a hard element for logo as it is)

About penguin as a logo:

* Why: to separate from the movie (stating that we are doing a game based on the world of the Iron Sky rather than the actual movie)
* Iron Sky is "funny" movie and has serious logo -> highjump is "serious" game and has funny logo

About logo "wow":

* It's not wow what you need, it's something that stick in everyones mind (whether it's annoying or not)

I like the second image the most of these (antarctic in the bg). That being said, the posture of the penguin is a bit unnatural looking. A penguin with its wings down and it's head tilted to the side would be more reminiscient of the Iron Sky eagle. Also, I think it would probably look way cooler that way =).
Also, I share the concerns of the previous posters, the layout is a bit off somehow and the proportions of the elements don't seem to "fit".

It's missing that "wow" factor that a cool logo can have.

I'm not an experienced artist, but just from a feedback point of view:

-The elements themselves are okay, and they're well drawn, but put together like that they look... somehow just not quite right.

-I suggested an ice sculpture as a logo, but it was of the Iron Sky eagle rather than a penguin. The eagle represents the Nazis forces, but the penguin doesn't really represent anyone except Antarctica.

-The penguin is an innately humourous bird, whereas this is rather a serious game. It might misrepresent it if you use a penguin as the main logo (I know I suggested a penguin mode but that was just as a funny unlockable secret). You've already got the antarctic continent and ice there, I think that's a better way of representing the setting in a serious context.

-The Iron Sky eagle would be a great way of linking the film and game together. It's a new "franchise", so it might be best to use consistent branding to build up people's awareness.

At the risk of making you feel like I am spamming you... here come a few more details... *blushes*

- Schwarze sonne: Understand the necessity to have it integrated as upper element. Still have to wonder about it being tilted, though. As said before, it kinda seems like it is falling rather than looking threatening. :/

- Positioning: Agree about the elements being hard to combine. So how about trying to convey the same basic idea with another element (ice mountain instead of Antarctica?)

- Composition: You say it is supposed to be a logo, not a poster. Yet, it is very detailed! To me it feels like a no-win situation: it cannot be any more detailed, because it is a logo, and yet it is already far too complicated to be recognizable when made smaller. How about trying to make it simpler, so that a smaller version will work, or to go for full poster quality? Of course, I am not a professional. I can be ignored at any time you like, and I will just live with any decisions you guys will make. :P

- Colors & Materials: The color of the penguin seems to be slightly too saturated, but again, it could be just me. Also, I do not really understand the texture of the schwarze sonne logo. Why is it as it is? Kinda feels completely random to me. Any reason behind your choice?

- Forms: I love the shape of the penguin. I am however unsure whether the Antarctica element should be the Antarctica shape itself, as stated before.

- Other Versions: Seeing "scrapped" version would not hurt, I guess. Alternatively, if you provided some source files, we could play around with them ourselves? But I said this before, as well. ;)

- Poster Suggestions: I posted some, but they do not quite match the current logo design. Sorry! ;)

One other thing I do wonder about, is whether the penguin in such a pose could be positioned against the schwarze sonne logo as the human figure is integrated in a circle and square in Leonardo's Vitruvian Man?

http://octagonmystic.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/vitruvian-man.jpg

Kinda like this, but much more serious of course:
http://www.jgoode.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/vitruvian-man-penguin.jpg

I think a number of people would appreciate you posting elements, so that they can try to edit something themselves and post them here as shots? Assuming you do not mind us giving it a try ourselves? :)

I understand your dilemma and your explanations. I personally wonder, however, if the Antarctica element IS necessary as such. What I mean is, wouldn't an iceberg/ice mountain indicate the South Pole well enough in combination with the logo? It kinda feels redundant in a way, and as you said, it is a very difficult element to combine.

As doe the schwarze sonne logo, do I understand correctly that you have tilted it as to symbolize it is a threat to the penguin? I honestly had not gotten that across... it simply seemed to be falling out of balance over the penguin, as if it was misplaced... but not in a threatening way. :/

Feedback taken, not insulting at all :D. Thanks for the feedback and more is welcome (see the end of this comment).

About the schwarze sonne:

The reason it's the upper element -> camera positioning (if I put it under the penguin it wont look like anything)

About the positioning:

These elements are really hard to combine because the forms and sizes of the elements -> penguin sucks as an logo element, schwarze sonne needs much space and Antarctica is dominant if presented as background. Also the Antarctica doesn't need to be much bigger -> the form of the logo will be out of balance.

About the composition as a whole:

The schwarze sonne is supposed to represent nazi / ufo threat hence the tilted version. Also purpose of this composition is to be a Logo, not a poster -> that's why there is no actual background (posters can be made from this and the schwarze sonne can be made as a texture, but keep in mind that this is perspective picture and not ortographic)

Some more feedback needed:

* About the colours and materials
* About the forms (is penguin ok, how about Antarctica)
* Do you need the different versions (so you can see that this version really doesn't suck that much :P)
* Try the logo with black background yourself
* Poster version suggestions welcome too :D

Uhm... I am not sure. I like the shape of the penguin, and I understand the necessity of use of the schwarze sonne logo, but I am feeling somehow perplexed in respect to the composition. The elements (on their own) are alright, I believe, but I am not feeling as sure concerning their combination/position/pose, as they do not seem to be recognizable at one glance. It is alright-ish... but it honestly does not strike in a "ooooh, cool!" kind of way.

The first suggestion for a test that would come to mind would be the following: how about swapping elements and using the antarctica as a background, and the schwarze sonne logo as a base/shadow beneath the penguin instead?

The penguin could also be positioned on the top of a rock or a small icy mountain, if you prefer keeping Antarctica as a base, but then perhaps Antarctica should be a bit bigger so that the shape is better recognizable?

As for the schwarze sonne logo, if you intend to keep it on the background, I feel it may be better to keep it in its original proportions rather than trying to give perspective to it... and rather use texture and a good overall background to give "personality" to it.

Uhm, that's a lot of 'advise', isn't it? Sorry guys, do not mean to be negative... it's not that I hate it or anything. But I cannot state I love it, either. Hopefully you will understand this is all said with the best of intentions even though it may sound arrogant and pretentious. :/

True. Maybe it is too controversial.

But I think an alternate logo is still possible.
After all, this is the story of how the U.S. forces kicked major frozen Nazi butt...

Matti, Angela, good aproaches, the black_sun_try_out could be for the box-art and the screen, Matti, your Logo is cool and reminds me of a RADAR-screen. (hint hint) I am not sure if I could make a RADAR screen out of it, but maybe another person (hint hint) could do it...? (hint?)

I wonder if Risto ever got to making color/texture tests with this one: http://www.wreckamovie.com/system/shot_medias/0000/2522/black_sun_tryout.png ?

I'd too use the penguin more in posters than in a logo. It gets too complex with Antarctica and schwarze sonne being complex as they are.

White Antarctica would make more sense. Somehow i'd like to see a red-white-black color scheme. Schwarze sonne isn't that well known, and those colors would spell Nazi.

Sorry Risto... it simply makes more sense for a logo,at least imho. *big hug*

I still love the penguin, just the composition you previously proposed is too complicated to be used in combination... e.g. I cannot see it fit in a desktop icon in any way. :(

Something like this, however, can definitely work! :)

Should have bet some money on your answers (I quite got them right before you even posted them) *slap myself around with a large herring* :P

Now this, this is something I can work with (figuratively speaking =P).

Definitely the simplistic look works a lot better, the only problem that I can spot is the fact that the Sonne stripes block out the form of the Antarctica-element.

Maybe scale these differently or reverse their colors?

Edit: I went ahead and inverted the colors. At least I think it looks awesome. The white Antarctica is wicked sick.
http://i48.tinypic.com/ri6t6a.png

I like the direction this is one taking. A logo should indeed be "simplicistic" in a way, so that it is recognizable in different dimensions.

Antarctica without penguin definitely works for me, since both elements were symbols for the same concept anyway.

And, the way the schwarze sonne suddenly looks like a crosshair when superimposed over the Antarctica gives it a rather interesting twist. :)

Thanks for the comments. Angela, always glad to develop. Matti, yeah, its the lens-effect in Photoshop, I found it per coincidence. But you are all right, I think, myterious nothingness as an halo effect doesent really work. I'll try something else...

Also an apple's an extremely simple and familiar shape...

I don't know... it doesn't really catch the eye.

Maybe you need to make the grey a lot more solid and shiny?

Always nice to see further development on a theme. :D

...if you feel you can use any of my designs in any possible ways, regardless if in the same form as I made them or developed further in unexpected ways, you know I'll be just plainly and amazingly happy to have been somehow able to contribute. ;)

These might be better as unit-badges!
Especially the top right one..

I concur with Kris' analysis. Number three looks best.

Number three I think (third from the left, top row). It gives the impression of Antarctica being in the middle of a sea, with the rest of the logo separate.

Yeah, that's the idea. "Cold" but not necessarily nazi... as Matti suggested.

Why do I get a certain "non-nazi" vibe from these. Like they could be used by anyone. Can't say really.

Gonna try that as soon as I have the time. :)

Yea. Looks good, but could you try making the cross-hairs sort of transparent-grayish?

Antarctica gets drowned under the shape. Maybe if you made it light gray instead of black and made the background "sea" black... Or had the color of the crosshair lighter on the continent...

Nope, I am pretty sure a proper swastika would be a no-no for issues related to political correctness. ;)

Seen you and Kris both agree about the previous concept/samples working better in all respects, I am ditching the crosshair idea unless someone else clearly states that they wish me to proceed with further tests in this direction. :P

Frankly put, ditch the crosshair. It's clogging the symbolism and overcomplicating the idea.

You're right that number 5 is the least blocking and if I had to choose one, I'd take 5. But still, I can't see where it would be used, since the previous iterations of this same scale were better imho.

Edit: Now if only we could use the swastika in a similar manner, I'm sure it'd be pretty neat. Sadly I don't think it's doable =/.

My favorite is nr. 5, where the crosshair is minimalized. I like the other crosshair shapes nr. 7/8 most but unfortunately they hide Antarctica too much even when it is so big. However, I am hoping that nr. 5 could work when enhancing the Antarctica by adjusting the thickness of the crosshair and applying colors...

Still, I am curious to hear whether anyone else feels that both Antarctica/crosshair/schwarze sonne references would be sufficiently clear in any of these. Or eventually, would anyone be able/willing to advise on how to improve this idea to make the symbolism more clear on all fronts?

To be honest I didn't even know about the Schwarze Sonne shape before getting involved with WAM, and I'm not sure how many other people would recognise it either.

The bigger Antarctica is definitely better but it's still a bit buried.

I think it's difficult to see the crosshair concept in these variations, because there is so much other stuff going on.

The crosshair shape IS an interesting one, all of them are. But it's difficult to pick one of them without seeing the final context. :)

Heh, yes, I stated that sample 1 was probably the best one because in this specific combination of shapes it was the only one where the Antarctica remained recognizable.

And then "wondered" what would happen if the Antarctica size was changed, meaning that I would make more tests after having chosen a crosshair. But I guess that did not get across clearly at all. :P

Anyhow, enough of this. How about checking further here:
http://www.wreckamovie.com/shots/show/5639

Bigger Antarctica, so probably a bit better recognizable. :)
Although please note I'm *still* focusing on the crosshair for now... ;)

How about making the outside rim use the same pattern but be much much thinner?

Sorry, that'll teach me to read responses more carefully. :(

Just looking at the shape alone, another problem is that the crosshairs aren't distinct from the rest of the shape, so it's difficult to tell that they are crosshairs. They look like part of the outer structure, a bit like a celtic cross.

Like I said, the crosshairs are a good concept, but making them work in this logo may take some effort.

Kris, as I tried to explain, these samples are/were aimed to choose a crosshair shape. I can see and agree with you that in these samples the Antarctica is not properly visible. I even stated it in the original shot. What I am/was trying to do was looking at the crosshair shape, leaving the problem to try and make the Antarctica visible as well for another stage... when I would do more tests aimed in that specific direction. :)

Gosh, if someone else says "but still, the Antarctica is not sufficiently visible" one more time I'm going to seriously consider jumping out of the window in despair... ;) :P

The crosshair is a good idea, the continent is a good idea.

I think the problem is that Antarctica is only recogniseable due to the very fine detail of its shape, but the crosshair is so thick that it hides this detail. It's like one thing cancels out the other, maybe?

Nope... not thinking of animations here. My sole "point" is experimenting with another shape. Specifically, finding out whether including a crosshair element to the logo would be possible/interesting. :)

This has nothing to do with the previous color tests.
Which is why I removed the colors from the samples. :P

So, forgetting to have ever seen the previous samples, and regardless of the impact the complexity of the schwarze sonne has on the visibiliy of Antarctica, the questions are:

- Would a crosshair reference be interesting at all?
- Which is the most interesting crosshair shape?

In base of that, I can then try to pick the best elements of the crosshair reference and work on further tests with the aim of increasing visibility of the Antarctica...

Or completely drop the concept if crosshair reference is something everybody finds utterly useless and uninteresting. :P

I dunno... maybe I'm missing the point but it still seems too difficult to see what's under the crosshairs.

Is the idea that this would be an animated sequence?

Edited sequence and removed colors to increase focus on the shape.
If interesting, that can be added later (red, blue, or whatever...)

Sample 1 probably works best - closer to the original, hence the Antarctica remains recognizable, and yet the crosshair reference remains visible as well. Wonder what would happen if I changed the size of Antarctica, though...

It's a really good concept, and I can imagine it animated like a James Bond intro, but somehow the original still seems the best.

The crosshair obscures the Antarctica shape so much that it's difficult to tell what is in there, but making it thinner would spoil the effect too.

I would still go for the original, personally. Even in blue it looks classic and clean.

I'd use the the third from the left on top row on the station's flag (or seal or insignia). It might even work on a red flag, or you could add a white background ring to make it work.

Maybe the Antarctica could be a teeny weeny bit smaller to fit inside the circle? This is nitpicking, of course...

Maybe you're right about the colors. Iron Sky uses the eagle to instantly bring Nazis to mind. You need to have something in the poster to do the same.

Edited the second row of images for coherence with the format of the blue/black/white shot.

Yes, Matti - definitely. Also because, looking so much "nazi" in the colors, it may be seen as a problem when marketing the product. That needs to be kept into consideration. You're the boss here, and you are going to be the people making the final decisions. I am merely offering my ideas in case they may be of any use... in any form, or variation on the theme. :)

I'll see what I can do with a cold color scheme, in order to convey a more "harsh environment in Antarctica-ish" feeling than a nazi one.

Yes, Jani, you definitely were. I would have not come up with this design if I had not received such brilliant suggestion. This is your design just as much as it is mine... so glad you like it! :D

Third from the left. I think that's a brilliant design! The thinner "S" -lines look better and it feels rightfully centered on the Antarctica.

And i think i was on the right track saying the color scheme should be the red-white-black.

I agree about the nazis using number 4, but aesthetically number 3 takes the win in my eyes. It just somehow works even without the nazi context.

Number 1 would be used in paper, stationary etc. that would require b/w symbols. Otherwise 3.

On an additional note, whereas samples 2/4 lack a clear schwarze sonne feeling to them, I kinda like how the S rune displays prominently in them... especially considering that was one of the symbolisms in the original logo. :)

I personally can see sample 4 being used by the nazi themselves as a symbol of the base in Antarctica... neuter background version as a logo, and red background version as a flag.

Maybe something that can be used as a decorative element in the base? :P

Yes and no. As in, the salute was in fact called "roman" and was inspired by the classical culture... but at the same time, it was not really a roman salute. It was rather "freely inspired" by the pose displayed by a number of ancient sculptures first and then late/much more modern paintings in the neoclassic style.

More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_salute

Aside from this, though, definitely a greek/roman reference is something the nazis would themselves appreciate. A border of linked swastikas was a very common Roman architectural motif, and when it comes to figurative arts, the differences in between greek and roman approaches are rather minimal, which make Matti's comment absolutely accurate.

Details of the Jupiter temple in Baalbek:
http://www.greatdreams.com/lebanon/lebanon_baalbeck_lions_head.jpg

Coincidentally, the shape of the symbol used in the design of the floor mosaic at the castle of Wewelsburg could be referred as having a renaissance-classicist style, whereas most of the nazi architecture in general was inspired by neoclassicism.

(Sorry, both my Italian heritage and my background as an Art student are hitting me rather hard at the moment. Gosh, I so wish I had my books here... there's be a sheer number of nice pictures to scan and show you as references...)

Heh, the Nazis were fond of their classical allusions... Wasn't the salute itself taken from ancient Rome?

I like the third one the most (top row, third from the left, red/white/black).

The ones where the black dominates remind me of people jumping around the midsummer fertility symbol singing "Små grodorna".

With the recent active conversation going on about the logo, would it be possible to edit the penguin-one of these so that the only the top part of the wings shows? As in edit out the "feathers" of the eagle. With the moon changed to be antarctica of course.

Since stylistically this is so beautifully along the lines of the original Iron Sky that it would be a waste to not try each and every combo imaginable..

Heh, Peter - You might have "your own cow in a ditch" in this one! (an ancient Finnish proverb that translates roughly to "you help others in a common effort (only) if your interests are threatened, too".

Matti - Sure, i'll try it tonight. I'm still crap with fonts, so i'll post one with no text as well. I'll also try to get Snowblind's poster guru Michael Schubert to chip in.

Do you want it in the A3 poster format or in the DVD cover size format?

Also, do you want me to include the "A game by Game Studios IGIOS and LudoCraft" - line or other text? I can also include the logos if you and Ludo send 'em to me at jani.salomaa(at)helsinki.fi .

What about the "Join the production at WAM" thingie? I've included it in my posters if people want to do guerilla marketting for both the product and WAM.

Risto: It would be cool to keep the moon a secret, but i guess Iron Sky the movie spoiled that, anyhow. I tried to get the Antarctica into the pic somehow, with the continent or the penguin. Besides, having moon nazis is a good selling point.

All: Yeah, the last poster is symphatetic somehow. The face has a nice expression on it. The emperor penguin fits the eagle's body mold nicely. It still has eagle nails, and maybe i need to change them to flippers, which won't be easy..

Everybody, thanks for the boatload of comments! I've improved these posters a lot based on your thoughts.

I would prefer logo with no actual reference to moon or moon Nazis (as it's supposed to be a "secret" that the player finds out if he /she plays enough :D). Comments on this?

I prefer the last picture too (more like penguin :D)

Matti, I think you're right. The only reason the dove was on the original Iron Sky logo was to add some humour to the logo and to remind people that this wasn't a pro-Nazi film. But if the logo itself is a penguin then we don't need anything else to bring humour to it.

These are amazing. I would vote for this one. It says it all to me.
http://www.wreckamovie.com/system/shot_medias/0000/2565/operation_highjump4.jpg

Mad props to the artist, the last one looks the best imo, since it changes the gamelogo to be appropriately different from the movie logo and still has the icy borders to back it up. Seriously great work. It's also simplistic enough to my eyes. There aren't too many things going on in the pic so the texts stand out best.

that big penguin statue reminds me of the life of penguins in general. The male Emperor penguins are protecting the egg during the winter time with their body, keeping the egg warm between their leg. Just to make it sure the next generation of penguins will be born when the springtime comes to the antarctica.

See some symbolism and connection to the Iron Sky story?

http://www.earthsky.org/faqpost/biodiversity/male-penguin-eggs

That makes penguin a nice mascot for the game. I am not sure can also this behaviour of penguins be expressed on those posters. Good work again Jani. Thumb up.

Matti, I added the penguin statue without the pigeon.

I like the one with the UFOs best, however I think that the dark coloring of the moon hides the penguin too much.
I realize it was done due to the overall brightness of the rest of the logo, but maybe you could reduce the background a bit?

Those two new ones (at the top) definitely get my vote. :)

OK, i did a couple of more, and now i'm officially done with the penguin theme. I promise, no more penguins! (unless i come up with something truly hilarious;)

I also updated the shots with "join the production at www.wreckamovie.com/ironskyoperationhighjump" -tagline.

Changing the eagle into a penguin makes it a little weird. I prefer the first one also. I just wonder, does the whole poster have to have a picture of Antactica. I think the icy border allready give it a certain "arctic" look.

:D I was going to suggest a penguin statue, nice to see someone with the ability to actually do it!

The top poster works quite well actually, the penguin howling in the moon. I would remove the swastika from it though, it makes the poster too cluttered IMHO.