The_night_has_etc

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Javier Gombinsky gave a shot "I'm in (I think)" for The night has gone to the dogs.
The_night_has_etc
The night has gone to the dogs. > Co-Writer > I'm in (I think)
I have the third draft of the screenplay done, but would welcome collaboration, hints, ideas, etc. I am particularly concerned by the ending, which have had some difficulty with. Will be uploading the screenplay soon, so that prospective collaborators can see what I'm on about.
744 days ago | 0 Comments | 0 Thumb-ups 

hey!
the synopsis sounds good. I can't promise anything, but if you don't mind handing people your script with no strings attached, i'd love to read it, and maybe send you some comments.
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(null) commented a shot
Termo_earth_thumb
The night has gone to the dogs. > Night shoots and shooting in the rain? > Night shoots and shooting in the rain?
by: Samba Pati
Hello, **huge question** although it might not seem so. Anyway I hope that although my text is not an instruction manual will help you to think about the matter and I placed some links to inform you further. On my side I try to write comments often left out and draw general small details anecdotes from own experience. Both night and rain scenes do demand some extras expenses, but this does not necessarily mean in financial terms. Although your question demands a lot of information I will try to gibe you some insights that you can and should research. Some extra efforts in imagination, know-how and collaboration can do the trick since they can be either faked or using real natural conditions. They do present some extra challenges which the production team needs to evaluate. Some normal problems that both these situations pose are: Sound problems, time problems and location problems: Sound problems in my opinion are meaningless since most productions do not use direct sound except for referencing at editing time. Hence noise caused by generators, large lights and effect devices usually render the live sound useless for much more than referencing. Also direct live sound recording usually limits or obstacles many camera movements and even the *mise-on-scene*. Today its much easier and cheaper dubbing all the sound and you get better quality. In the past dubbing was very expensive since studio time was required and thus expensive yet it was worth it due to quality and hence the reason why almost all fiction films were dubbed and the whole sound track built during post production. The only direct sound needed and is a must is the ambiance sound and that is always recorded without the rest of the crew and with no other devices but the sound recorder be it a Nagra or any other decent recorder today it can be substituted by the camcorders own recording and only demands a good quality omni directional mike. Therefore in both nigh and rain recordings this is a problem that is not so necessary critical and the plus aspects pros are much more than the cons. The only really necessary unavoidable and obligatory sound recording for any production is the ambience sound at location. Nigh shots can be faked using different methods to avoid costly night filming,: First exteriors scenes can be shot during the day, using tungsten-balanced rather than daylight-balanced film stock or with special blue filters and also under-exposing the shot (usually in post-production) to create the illusion of darkness or moonlight. Lighting the characters two to three stops more than the background helps the effect, but doing so requires controlling the natural light direction and reinforcing it with reflectors. Some prefer and argue better to shoot preferably during very sunny days so the light to shadow ratio is quite dramatic. However some people choose dawn or dusk hours to shoot day for night because the shadows rendered are long and the contrast is enough. Yet actor position and backgrounds have to be selected with this I mind. Cons are time limits i.e. twilight dusk and dawn are quite short periods although these depends also of the location. The closer to the equator normally makes these time period much shorted than in locations near the poles where twilight can last even months. In any case the light can be controlled, directed easily with reflectors, rented or built, even often some production houses, studios film or TV even equipment rental houses do have left-overs of such materials and if approached correctly they might let you or hand you some left-overs (rental houses are less inclined but Film and TV studios or private Productions just completed might go for it and give you the left-overs for free or very cheap be it reflectors and/or filters. The bluishness of nigh can be faked by using filters and or gels or by using day for night stock or built in filters. Video cameras can be set for interior settings, film raw stock can be bought for interiors and used outside and latter further corrected either on the development process or the post production. Other consideration is to have the correct light ratio settings and these depend much on the stock sensibility. Some stocks accept 4:1, 5;1 or even higher ratios while other don’t. In the past video signal and systems where quite limited and 3:1 ratios were at best the maximum possible but not any more. I recommend going out with a good spotlight meter and or thermocolorimeter to take some readings on location during the type of night you would think is ideal for your film’s ambience and take readings, jot them down and hence you will have a good reference for later choosing your day for night shooting natural ratios. Rainy nights need a slightly different approach since rainy days usually are quite flat and there is little different between shadows and light yet you can still reflect light to emphasise and create depth and drama without looking unnatural. In my experience a well recorded - image and sound- material help very much and are critical for faking any type of during post-production. If the quality is not there it does not matter how much money you spend or know how that you will rarely get a quality even close to the well recorded original by post-production corrections. So pre-production and planning go very far in any special conditions. If you have clear your technical needs for faking day for night and also the directing needs, scenes rehearsed and so forth you can get pretty decent or excellent results with no need to spend more money. Remember that many award winning cinematographers as e.g. Nestor Almendros and others rather us natural light and even plan to avoid using any type of lighting devices. As for rain unless one has a really huge production budget or owns a studio its is better to shoot under naturally rainy conditions than to fake them. However that does not mean it is not possible to fake them successfully and it has advantages too as security if its raining at night and thinking in using lights. Many have done so often because of situations where the script demanded a rainy day uncompromisingly yet the real location rain did not come due to weather unpredictability or because the production schedule had been displaced enough that maybe rain can not be expected for a whole six-month period. Faking rain has its difficulties amongst them rain direction and intensity but these can be fakes with hoses and fans rented, loaned or made. Again it is a matter of compromise and budget. Yet if you have a flexible crew and a cast (beware of the cast reliability above all since a technician can be replaced even if you rather not but once you start a production replacing and actor can be hell or might mean starting everything all over again). Today faking is much easier because the raw stock in film or video or digital camera system sensibility and sensors are excellent and allow much more flexibility. In any event all these need preparation and coordination and above all careful planning and referencing for continuity purposes. When shooting in natural locations you always have the weather variable which here becomes a need - rain specially due to the title of the film I speculate still. Yet often energy access is a big challenge. Most night lights and professional lights need higher voltage, and intensity. Often normal grids can jump when plugging more than one HMI for example and even three or four small tungsten lights might create a lot of problems if the electrical grid at the location is old, not powerful and so forth. This naturally mean generators and noise which can also generate complaints from nearby residents. Additionally to replace the natural light of the moon and its direction normal small light stands are not enough so either a tower must be built, (even if it is as basic as a stand as possible) or a system to attach heavy lights which out of a studio of course might need permissions and that gaffers and lighting electricians and assistants have alas union permits or are qualified. The problem increases if it combines night and rain since then the possibility for accidents and electrical discharges really increases hence why studios fake rain scene and night scenes but independent productions fake it. The worse case scenario is lighting a real location on a rainy day. These means expenses, permits, not only form the location owners but from the grid managers, and also for the engineers or electricians. In nay case this is quite a detailed subject but as I tried to explain the right know-how can make that faking is as real and the quality as good. Just it is necessary to understand that its not only an economical matter since despite all the money you would still need the know how. Please understand that I do not have the time to explain everything in detail and even if I did ti would take several shots probably. I still tried to touch upon a complex and long subject which would need much more order and planning to write about however I have tied to mention some things that might help you to consider the issue no matter how ad hoc this explanation is since there is enough literature about the subject if you look for day for night and shooting in location. Here below some links that might help. The you tube video in my opinion would help discourage anyone from trying since it does not look good, at least I think so yet it can be done successfully with much better quality. Sorry if I provide more opinion than actual ordered facts but these is a large topic and I tried to write about issues that I think often are left untold such as leftovers, or problems so forth. Day-for-night shooting seems to have become more common in recent years which goes against the trends of a decade ago. **Links below are helpful yet do not believe everything as if it were sacred last link maybe best**. Some might need registration and payment yet offer trial periods which you can use to gather and learn and then if you can not afford them just unregister before trial period is over or they will charge you. If you are interested in the long run they might be helpful anyway since the amount for a long period is quite cheap although I personally did not take the time to check prices I deduce from other similar sites like virus protection programs, software and so forth: **How to Turn the Light of Day into the Dark of Night** http://www.school-video-news.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=508:how-to-turn-the-light-of-day-into-the-dark-of-night&catid=27:lighting&Itemid=46 **Night Light Tutorial - How to turn the light of day into dark of night** http://www.videomaker.com/video/watch/tutorials/124/night-light-tutorial-how-to-turn-the-light-of-day-into-the-dark-of-night/ **Day-For-Night** http://www.photoshopcafe.com/cafe/viewthread.php?tid=19277 **Technical Info Day for night and Raining and more** http://www.cinematography.net/Techniques%20TOC.htm
818 days ago | 2 Thumb-ups 
In fact I'd say this is possibly the most helpful and informative text-based shot I have seen on Wreckamovie so far. Well done Tao!
101_0280_thumb
Gareth Spark commented a shot
Termo_earth_thumb
The night has gone to the dogs. > Night shoots and shooting in the rain? > Night shoots and shooting in the rain?
by: Samba Pati
Hello, **huge question** although it might not seem so. Anyway I hope that although my text is not an instruction manual will help you to think about the matter and I placed some links to inform you further. On my side I try to write comments often left out and draw general small details anecdotes from own experience. Both night and rain scenes do demand some extras expenses, but this does not necessarily mean in financial terms. Although your question demands a lot of information I will try to gibe you some insights that you can and should research. Some extra efforts in imagination, know-how and collaboration can do the trick since they can be either faked or using real natural conditions. They do present some extra challenges which the production team needs to evaluate. Some normal problems that both these situations pose are: Sound problems, time problems and location problems: Sound problems in my opinion are meaningless since most productions do not use direct sound except for referencing at editing time. Hence noise caused by generators, large lights and effect devices usually render the live sound useless for much more than referencing. Also direct live sound recording usually limits or obstacles many camera movements and even the *mise-on-scene*. Today its much easier and cheaper dubbing all the sound and you get better quality. In the past dubbing was very expensive since studio time was required and thus expensive yet it was worth it due to quality and hence the reason why almost all fiction films were dubbed and the whole sound track built during post production. The only direct sound needed and is a must is the ambiance sound and that is always recorded without the rest of the crew and with no other devices but the sound recorder be it a Nagra or any other decent recorder today it can be substituted by the camcorders own recording and only demands a good quality omni directional mike. Therefore in both nigh and rain recordings this is a problem that is not so necessary critical and the plus aspects pros are much more than the cons. The only really necessary unavoidable and obligatory sound recording for any production is the ambience sound at location. Nigh shots can be faked using different methods to avoid costly night filming,: First exteriors scenes can be shot during the day, using tungsten-balanced rather than daylight-balanced film stock or with special blue filters and also under-exposing the shot (usually in post-production) to create the illusion of darkness or moonlight. Lighting the characters two to three stops more than the background helps the effect, but doing so requires controlling the natural light direction and reinforcing it with reflectors. Some prefer and argue better to shoot preferably during very sunny days so the light to shadow ratio is quite dramatic. However some people choose dawn or dusk hours to shoot day for night because the shadows rendered are long and the contrast is enough. Yet actor position and backgrounds have to be selected with this I mind. Cons are time limits i.e. twilight dusk and dawn are quite short periods although these depends also of the location. The closer to the equator normally makes these time period much shorted than in locations near the poles where twilight can last even months. In any case the light can be controlled, directed easily with reflectors, rented or built, even often some production houses, studios film or TV even equipment rental houses do have left-overs of such materials and if approached correctly they might let you or hand you some left-overs (rental houses are less inclined but Film and TV studios or private Productions just completed might go for it and give you the left-overs for free or very cheap be it reflectors and/or filters. The bluishness of nigh can be faked by using filters and or gels or by using day for night stock or built in filters. Video cameras can be set for interior settings, film raw stock can be bought for interiors and used outside and latter further corrected either on the development process or the post production. Other consideration is to have the correct light ratio settings and these depend much on the stock sensibility. Some stocks accept 4:1, 5;1 or even higher ratios while other don’t. In the past video signal and systems where quite limited and 3:1 ratios were at best the maximum possible but not any more. I recommend going out with a good spotlight meter and or thermocolorimeter to take some readings on location during the type of night you would think is ideal for your film’s ambience and take readings, jot them down and hence you will have a good reference for later choosing your day for night shooting natural ratios. Rainy nights need a slightly different approach since rainy days usually are quite flat and there is little different between shadows and light yet you can still reflect light to emphasise and create depth and drama without looking unnatural. In my experience a well recorded - image and sound- material help very much and are critical for faking any type of during post-production. If the quality is not there it does not matter how much money you spend or know how that you will rarely get a quality even close to the well recorded original by post-production corrections. So pre-production and planning go very far in any special conditions. If you have clear your technical needs for faking day for night and also the directing needs, scenes rehearsed and so forth you can get pretty decent or excellent results with no need to spend more money. Remember that many award winning cinematographers as e.g. Nestor Almendros and others rather us natural light and even plan to avoid using any type of lighting devices. As for rain unless one has a really huge production budget or owns a studio its is better to shoot under naturally rainy conditions than to fake them. However that does not mean it is not possible to fake them successfully and it has advantages too as security if its raining at night and thinking in using lights. Many have done so often because of situations where the script demanded a rainy day uncompromisingly yet the real location rain did not come due to weather unpredictability or because the production schedule had been displaced enough that maybe rain can not be expected for a whole six-month period. Faking rain has its difficulties amongst them rain direction and intensity but these can be fakes with hoses and fans rented, loaned or made. Again it is a matter of compromise and budget. Yet if you have a flexible crew and a cast (beware of the cast reliability above all since a technician can be replaced even if you rather not but once you start a production replacing and actor can be hell or might mean starting everything all over again). Today faking is much easier because the raw stock in film or video or digital camera system sensibility and sensors are excellent and allow much more flexibility. In any event all these need preparation and coordination and above all careful planning and referencing for continuity purposes. When shooting in natural locations you always have the weather variable which here becomes a need - rain specially due to the title of the film I speculate still. Yet often energy access is a big challenge. Most night lights and professional lights need higher voltage, and intensity. Often normal grids can jump when plugging more than one HMI for example and even three or four small tungsten lights might create a lot of problems if the electrical grid at the location is old, not powerful and so forth. This naturally mean generators and noise which can also generate complaints from nearby residents. Additionally to replace the natural light of the moon and its direction normal small light stands are not enough so either a tower must be built, (even if it is as basic as a stand as possible) or a system to attach heavy lights which out of a studio of course might need permissions and that gaffers and lighting electricians and assistants have alas union permits or are qualified. The problem increases if it combines night and rain since then the possibility for accidents and electrical discharges really increases hence why studios fake rain scene and night scenes but independent productions fake it. The worse case scenario is lighting a real location on a rainy day. These means expenses, permits, not only form the location owners but from the grid managers, and also for the engineers or electricians. In nay case this is quite a detailed subject but as I tried to explain the right know-how can make that faking is as real and the quality as good. Just it is necessary to understand that its not only an economical matter since despite all the money you would still need the know how. Please understand that I do not have the time to explain everything in detail and even if I did ti would take several shots probably. I still tried to touch upon a complex and long subject which would need much more order and planning to write about however I have tied to mention some things that might help you to consider the issue no matter how ad hoc this explanation is since there is enough literature about the subject if you look for day for night and shooting in location. Here below some links that might help. The you tube video in my opinion would help discourage anyone from trying since it does not look good, at least I think so yet it can be done successfully with much better quality. Sorry if I provide more opinion than actual ordered facts but these is a large topic and I tried to write about issues that I think often are left untold such as leftovers, or problems so forth. Day-for-night shooting seems to have become more common in recent years which goes against the trends of a decade ago. **Links below are helpful yet do not believe everything as if it were sacred last link maybe best**. Some might need registration and payment yet offer trial periods which you can use to gather and learn and then if you can not afford them just unregister before trial period is over or they will charge you. If you are interested in the long run they might be helpful anyway since the amount for a long period is quite cheap although I personally did not take the time to check prices I deduce from other similar sites like virus protection programs, software and so forth: **How to Turn the Light of Day into the Dark of Night** http://www.school-video-news.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=508:how-to-turn-the-light-of-day-into-the-dark-of-night&catid=27:lighting&Itemid=46 **Night Light Tutorial - How to turn the light of day into dark of night** http://www.videomaker.com/video/watch/tutorials/124/night-light-tutorial-how-to-turn-the-light-of-day-into-the-dark-of-night/ **Day-For-Night** http://www.photoshopcafe.com/cafe/viewthread.php?tid=19277 **Technical Info Day for night and Raining and more** http://www.cinematography.net/Techniques%20TOC.htm
818 days ago | 2 Thumb-ups 
That's a fantastic help and thank you for taking the time to aid me with this. I appreciate it a great deal. Thanks again.
No-user-picture-set
(null) commented a shot
Termo_earth_thumb
The night has gone to the dogs. > Night shoots and shooting in the rain? > Night shoots and shooting in the rain?
by: Samba Pati
Hello, **huge question** although it might not seem so. Anyway I hope that although my text is not an instruction manual will help you to think about the matter and I placed some links to inform you further. On my side I try to write comments often left out and draw general small details anecdotes from own experience. Both night and rain scenes do demand some extras expenses, but this does not necessarily mean in financial terms. Although your question demands a lot of information I will try to gibe you some insights that you can and should research. Some extra efforts in imagination, know-how and collaboration can do the trick since they can be either faked or using real natural conditions. They do present some extra challenges which the production team needs to evaluate. Some normal problems that both these situations pose are: Sound problems, time problems and location problems: Sound problems in my opinion are meaningless since most productions do not use direct sound except for referencing at editing time. Hence noise caused by generators, large lights and effect devices usually render the live sound useless for much more than referencing. Also direct live sound recording usually limits or obstacles many camera movements and even the *mise-on-scene*. Today its much easier and cheaper dubbing all the sound and you get better quality. In the past dubbing was very expensive since studio time was required and thus expensive yet it was worth it due to quality and hence the reason why almost all fiction films were dubbed and the whole sound track built during post production. The only direct sound needed and is a must is the ambiance sound and that is always recorded without the rest of the crew and with no other devices but the sound recorder be it a Nagra or any other decent recorder today it can be substituted by the camcorders own recording and only demands a good quality omni directional mike. Therefore in both nigh and rain recordings this is a problem that is not so necessary critical and the plus aspects pros are much more than the cons. The only really necessary unavoidable and obligatory sound recording for any production is the ambience sound at location. Nigh shots can be faked using different methods to avoid costly night filming,: First exteriors scenes can be shot during the day, using tungsten-balanced rather than daylight-balanced film stock or with special blue filters and also under-exposing the shot (usually in post-production) to create the illusion of darkness or moonlight. Lighting the characters two to three stops more than the background helps the effect, but doing so requires controlling the natural light direction and reinforcing it with reflectors. Some prefer and argue better to shoot preferably during very sunny days so the light to shadow ratio is quite dramatic. However some people choose dawn or dusk hours to shoot day for night because the shadows rendered are long and the contrast is enough. Yet actor position and backgrounds have to be selected with this I mind. Cons are time limits i.e. twilight dusk and dawn are quite short periods although these depends also of the location. The closer to the equator normally makes these time period much shorted than in locations near the poles where twilight can last even months. In any case the light can be controlled, directed easily with reflectors, rented or built, even often some production houses, studios film or TV even equipment rental houses do have left-overs of such materials and if approached correctly they might let you or hand you some left-overs (rental houses are less inclined but Film and TV studios or private Productions just completed might go for it and give you the left-overs for free or very cheap be it reflectors and/or filters. The bluishness of nigh can be faked by using filters and or gels or by using day for night stock or built in filters. Video cameras can be set for interior settings, film raw stock can be bought for interiors and used outside and latter further corrected either on the development process or the post production. Other consideration is to have the correct light ratio settings and these depend much on the stock sensibility. Some stocks accept 4:1, 5;1 or even higher ratios while other don’t. In the past video signal and systems where quite limited and 3:1 ratios were at best the maximum possible but not any more. I recommend going out with a good spotlight meter and or thermocolorimeter to take some readings on location during the type of night you would think is ideal for your film’s ambience and take readings, jot them down and hence you will have a good reference for later choosing your day for night shooting natural ratios. Rainy nights need a slightly different approach since rainy days usually are quite flat and there is little different between shadows and light yet you can still reflect light to emphasise and create depth and drama without looking unnatural. In my experience a well recorded - image and sound- material help very much and are critical for faking any type of during post-production. If the quality is not there it does not matter how much money you spend or know how that you will rarely get a quality even close to the well recorded original by post-production corrections. So pre-production and planning go very far in any special conditions. If you have clear your technical needs for faking day for night and also the directing needs, scenes rehearsed and so forth you can get pretty decent or excellent results with no need to spend more money. Remember that many award winning cinematographers as e.g. Nestor Almendros and others rather us natural light and even plan to avoid using any type of lighting devices. As for rain unless one has a really huge production budget or owns a studio its is better to shoot under naturally rainy conditions than to fake them. However that does not mean it is not possible to fake them successfully and it has advantages too as security if its raining at night and thinking in using lights. Many have done so often because of situations where the script demanded a rainy day uncompromisingly yet the real location rain did not come due to weather unpredictability or because the production schedule had been displaced enough that maybe rain can not be expected for a whole six-month period. Faking rain has its difficulties amongst them rain direction and intensity but these can be fakes with hoses and fans rented, loaned or made. Again it is a matter of compromise and budget. Yet if you have a flexible crew and a cast (beware of the cast reliability above all since a technician can be replaced even if you rather not but once you start a production replacing and actor can be hell or might mean starting everything all over again). Today faking is much easier because the raw stock in film or video or digital camera system sensibility and sensors are excellent and allow much more flexibility. In any event all these need preparation and coordination and above all careful planning and referencing for continuity purposes. When shooting in natural locations you always have the weather variable which here becomes a need - rain specially due to the title of the film I speculate still. Yet often energy access is a big challenge. Most night lights and professional lights need higher voltage, and intensity. Often normal grids can jump when plugging more than one HMI for example and even three or four small tungsten lights might create a lot of problems if the electrical grid at the location is old, not powerful and so forth. This naturally mean generators and noise which can also generate complaints from nearby residents. Additionally to replace the natural light of the moon and its direction normal small light stands are not enough so either a tower must be built, (even if it is as basic as a stand as possible) or a system to attach heavy lights which out of a studio of course might need permissions and that gaffers and lighting electricians and assistants have alas union permits or are qualified. The problem increases if it combines night and rain since then the possibility for accidents and electrical discharges really increases hence why studios fake rain scene and night scenes but independent productions fake it. The worse case scenario is lighting a real location on a rainy day. These means expenses, permits, not only form the location owners but from the grid managers, and also for the engineers or electricians. In nay case this is quite a detailed subject but as I tried to explain the right know-how can make that faking is as real and the quality as good. Just it is necessary to understand that its not only an economical matter since despite all the money you would still need the know how. Please understand that I do not have the time to explain everything in detail and even if I did ti would take several shots probably. I still tried to touch upon a complex and long subject which would need much more order and planning to write about however I have tied to mention some things that might help you to consider the issue no matter how ad hoc this explanation is since there is enough literature about the subject if you look for day for night and shooting in location. Here below some links that might help. The you tube video in my opinion would help discourage anyone from trying since it does not look good, at least I think so yet it can be done successfully with much better quality. Sorry if I provide more opinion than actual ordered facts but these is a large topic and I tried to write about issues that I think often are left untold such as leftovers, or problems so forth. Day-for-night shooting seems to have become more common in recent years which goes against the trends of a decade ago. **Links below are helpful yet do not believe everything as if it were sacred last link maybe best**. Some might need registration and payment yet offer trial periods which you can use to gather and learn and then if you can not afford them just unregister before trial period is over or they will charge you. If you are interested in the long run they might be helpful anyway since the amount for a long period is quite cheap although I personally did not take the time to check prices I deduce from other similar sites like virus protection programs, software and so forth: **How to Turn the Light of Day into the Dark of Night** http://www.school-video-news.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=508:how-to-turn-the-light-of-day-into-the-dark-of-night&catid=27:lighting&Itemid=46 **Night Light Tutorial - How to turn the light of day into dark of night** http://www.videomaker.com/video/watch/tutorials/124/night-light-tutorial-how-to-turn-the-light-of-day-into-the-dark-of-night/ **Day-For-Night** http://www.photoshopcafe.com/cafe/viewthread.php?tid=19277 **Technical Info Day for night and Raining and more** http://www.cinematography.net/Techniques%20TOC.htm
819 days ago | 2 Thumb-ups 
Tao, that's an amazing shot you've given! I wish I could give 10 thumbs up! :)
Peter Vesterbacka commented a shot
Termo_earth_thumb
The night has gone to the dogs. > Night shoots and shooting in the rain? > Night shoots and shooting in the rain?
by: Samba Pati
Hello, **huge question** although it might not seem so. Anyway I hope that although my text is not an instruction manual will help you to think about the matter and I placed some links to inform you further. On my side I try to write comments often left out and draw general small details anecdotes from own experience. Both night and rain scenes do demand some extras expenses, but this does not necessarily mean in financial terms. Although your question demands a lot of information I will try to gibe you some insights that you can and should research. Some extra efforts in imagination, know-how and collaboration can do the trick since they can be either faked or using real natural conditions. They do present some extra challenges which the production team needs to evaluate. Some normal problems that both these situations pose are: Sound problems, time problems and location problems: Sound problems in my opinion are meaningless since most productions do not use direct sound except for referencing at editing time. Hence noise caused by generators, large lights and effect devices usually render the live sound useless for much more than referencing. Also direct live sound recording usually limits or obstacles many camera movements and even the *mise-on-scene*. Today its much easier and cheaper dubbing all the sound and you get better quality. In the past dubbing was very expensive since studio time was required and thus expensive yet it was worth it due to quality and hence the reason why almost all fiction films were dubbed and the whole sound track built during post production. The only direct sound needed and is a must is the ambiance sound and that is always recorded without the rest of the crew and with no other devices but the sound recorder be it a Nagra or any other decent recorder today it can be substituted by the camcorders own recording and only demands a good quality omni directional mike. Therefore in both nigh and rain recordings this is a problem that is not so necessary critical and the plus aspects pros are much more than the cons. The only really necessary unavoidable and obligatory sound recording for any production is the ambience sound at location. Nigh shots can be faked using different methods to avoid costly night filming,: First exteriors scenes can be shot during the day, using tungsten-balanced rather than daylight-balanced film stock or with special blue filters and also under-exposing the shot (usually in post-production) to create the illusion of darkness or moonlight. Lighting the characters two to three stops more than the background helps the effect, but doing so requires controlling the natural light direction and reinforcing it with reflectors. Some prefer and argue better to shoot preferably during very sunny days so the light to shadow ratio is quite dramatic. However some people choose dawn or dusk hours to shoot day for night because the shadows rendered are long and the contrast is enough. Yet actor position and backgrounds have to be selected with this I mind. Cons are time limits i.e. twilight dusk and dawn are quite short periods although these depends also of the location. The closer to the equator normally makes these time period much shorted than in locations near the poles where twilight can last even months. In any case the light can be controlled, directed easily with reflectors, rented or built, even often some production houses, studios film or TV even equipment rental houses do have left-overs of such materials and if approached correctly they might let you or hand you some left-overs (rental houses are less inclined but Film and TV studios or private Productions just completed might go for it and give you the left-overs for free or very cheap be it reflectors and/or filters. The bluishness of nigh can be faked by using filters and or gels or by using day for night stock or built in filters. Video cameras can be set for interior settings, film raw stock can be bought for interiors and used outside and latter further corrected either on the development process or the post production. Other consideration is to have the correct light ratio settings and these depend much on the stock sensibility. Some stocks accept 4:1, 5;1 or even higher ratios while other don’t. In the past video signal and systems where quite limited and 3:1 ratios were at best the maximum possible but not any more. I recommend going out with a good spotlight meter and or thermocolorimeter to take some readings on location during the type of night you would think is ideal for your film’s ambience and take readings, jot them down and hence you will have a good reference for later choosing your day for night shooting natural ratios. Rainy nights need a slightly different approach since rainy days usually are quite flat and there is little different between shadows and light yet you can still reflect light to emphasise and create depth and drama without looking unnatural. In my experience a well recorded - image and sound- material help very much and are critical for faking any type of during post-production. If the quality is not there it does not matter how much money you spend or know how that you will rarely get a quality even close to the well recorded original by post-production corrections. So pre-production and planning go very far in any special conditions. If you have clear your technical needs for faking day for night and also the directing needs, scenes rehearsed and so forth you can get pretty decent or excellent results with no need to spend more money. Remember that many award winning cinematographers as e.g. Nestor Almendros and others rather us natural light and even plan to avoid using any type of lighting devices. As for rain unless one has a really huge production budget or owns a studio its is better to shoot under naturally rainy conditions than to fake them. However that does not mean it is not possible to fake them successfully and it has advantages too as security if its raining at night and thinking in using lights. Many have done so often because of situations where the script demanded a rainy day uncompromisingly yet the real location rain did not come due to weather unpredictability or because the production schedule had been displaced enough that maybe rain can not be expected for a whole six-month period. Faking rain has its difficulties amongst them rain direction and intensity but these can be fakes with hoses and fans rented, loaned or made. Again it is a matter of compromise and budget. Yet if you have a flexible crew and a cast (beware of the cast reliability above all since a technician can be replaced even if you rather not but once you start a production replacing and actor can be hell or might mean starting everything all over again). Today faking is much easier because the raw stock in film or video or digital camera system sensibility and sensors are excellent and allow much more flexibility. In any event all these need preparation and coordination and above all careful planning and referencing for continuity purposes. When shooting in natural locations you always have the weather variable which here becomes a need - rain specially due to the title of the film I speculate still. Yet often energy access is a big challenge. Most night lights and professional lights need higher voltage, and intensity. Often normal grids can jump when plugging more than one HMI for example and even three or four small tungsten lights might create a lot of problems if the electrical grid at the location is old, not powerful and so forth. This naturally mean generators and noise which can also generate complaints from nearby residents. Additionally to replace the natural light of the moon and its direction normal small light stands are not enough so either a tower must be built, (even if it is as basic as a stand as possible) or a system to attach heavy lights which out of a studio of course might need permissions and that gaffers and lighting electricians and assistants have alas union permits or are qualified. The problem increases if it combines night and rain since then the possibility for accidents and electrical discharges really increases hence why studios fake rain scene and night scenes but independent productions fake it. The worse case scenario is lighting a real location on a rainy day. These means expenses, permits, not only form the location owners but from the grid managers, and also for the engineers or electricians. In nay case this is quite a detailed subject but as I tried to explain the right know-how can make that faking is as real and the quality as good. Just it is necessary to understand that its not only an economical matter since despite all the money you would still need the know how. Please understand that I do not have the time to explain everything in detail and even if I did ti would take several shots probably. I still tried to touch upon a complex and long subject which would need much more order and planning to write about however I have tied to mention some things that might help you to consider the issue no matter how ad hoc this explanation is since there is enough literature about the subject if you look for day for night and shooting in location. Here below some links that might help. The you tube video in my opinion would help discourage anyone from trying since it does not look good, at least I think so yet it can be done successfully with much better quality. Sorry if I provide more opinion than actual ordered facts but these is a large topic and I tried to write about issues that I think often are left untold such as leftovers, or problems so forth. Day-for-night shooting seems to have become more common in recent years which goes against the trends of a decade ago. **Links below are helpful yet do not believe everything as if it were sacred last link maybe best**. Some might need registration and payment yet offer trial periods which you can use to gather and learn and then if you can not afford them just unregister before trial period is over or they will charge you. If you are interested in the long run they might be helpful anyway since the amount for a long period is quite cheap although I personally did not take the time to check prices I deduce from other similar sites like virus protection programs, software and so forth: **How to Turn the Light of Day into the Dark of Night** http://www.school-video-news.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=508:how-to-turn-the-light-of-day-into-the-dark-of-night&catid=27:lighting&Itemid=46 **Night Light Tutorial - How to turn the light of day into dark of night** http://www.videomaker.com/video/watch/tutorials/124/night-light-tutorial-how-to-turn-the-light-of-day-into-the-dark-of-night/ **Day-For-Night** http://www.photoshopcafe.com/cafe/viewthread.php?tid=19277 **Technical Info Day for night and Raining and more** http://www.cinematography.net/Techniques%20TOC.htm
819 days ago | 1 Thumb-up 
Wow! That's a lot of information! Thanks for taking the time and share with all of us!
Termo_earth_thumb
Samba Pati gave a shot "Night shoots and shooting in the rain?" for The night has gone to the dogs.
The_night_has_etc
The night has gone to the dogs. > Night shoots and shooting in the rain? > Night shoots and shooting in the rain?
A year back I was working on a Sci-Fi short film which eventually came to nothing because of the perceived expense of the FX. However, reviewing the screenplay for The Night has gone to the dogs, I find there are a few EXT. Night scenes, and two EXT. scenes taing place in the rain. Am I right in thinking these would be pretty tricky/expensive to film? If so, will have to amend the script a little. Any advice would be great.
819 days ago | 4 Comments | 3 Thumb-ups 

Hello, huge question although it might not seem so. Anyway I hope that although my text is not an instruction manual will help you to think about the matter and I placed some links to inform you further. On my side I try to write comments often left out and draw general small details anecdotes from own experience.

Both night and rain scenes do demand some extras expenses, but this does not necessarily mean in financial terms. Although your question demands a lot of information I will try to gibe you some insights that you can and should research. Some extra efforts in imagination, know-how and collaboration can do the trick since they can be either faked or using real natural conditions. They do present some extra challenges which the production team needs to evaluate. Some normal problems that both these situations pose are: Sound problems, time problems and location problems:

Sound problems in my opinion are meaningless since most productions do not use direct sound except for referencing at editing time. Hence noise caused by generators, large lights and effect devices usually render the live sound useless for much more than referencing. Also direct live sound recording usually limits or obstacles many camera movements and even the mise-on-scene. Today its much easier and cheaper dubbing all the sound and you get better quality. In the past dubbing was very expensive since studio time was required and thus expensive yet it was worth it due to quality and hence the reason why almost all fiction films were dubbed and the whole sound track built during post production.

The only direct sound needed and is a must is the ambiance sound and that is always recorded without the rest of the crew and with no other devices but the sound recorder be it a Nagra or any other decent recorder today it can be substituted by the camcorders own recording and only demands a good quality omni directional mike. Therefore in both nigh and rain recordings this is a problem that is not so necessary critical and the plus aspects pros are much more than the cons. The only really necessary unavoidable and obligatory sound recording for any production is the ambience sound at location.

Nigh shots can be faked using different methods to avoid costly night filming,: First exteriors scenes can be shot during the day, using tungsten-balanced rather than daylight-balanced film stock or with special blue filters and also under-exposing the shot (usually in post-production) to create the illusion of darkness or moonlight. Lighting the characters two to three stops more than the background helps the effect, but doing so requires controlling the natural light direction and reinforcing it with reflectors. Some prefer and argue better to shoot preferably during very sunny days so the light to shadow ratio is quite dramatic. However some people choose dawn or dusk hours to shoot day for night because the shadows rendered are long and the contrast is enough. Yet actor position and backgrounds have to be selected with this I mind. Cons are time limits i.e. twilight dusk and dawn are quite short periods although these depends also of the location. The closer to the equator normally makes these time period much shorted than in locations near the poles where twilight can last even months. In any case the light can be controlled, directed easily with reflectors, rented or built, even often some production houses, studios film or TV even equipment rental houses do have left-overs of such materials and if approached correctly they might let you or hand you some left-overs (rental houses are less inclined but Film and TV studios or private Productions just completed might go for it and give you the left-overs for free or very cheap be it reflectors and/or filters. The bluishness of nigh can be faked by using filters and or gels or by using day for night stock or built in filters. Video cameras can be set for interior settings, film raw stock can be bought for interiors and used outside and latter further corrected either on the development process or the post production. Other consideration is to have the correct light ratio settings and these depend much on the stock sensibility. Some stocks accept 4:1, 5;1 or even higher ratios while other don’t. In the past video signal and systems where quite limited and 3:1 ratios were at best the maximum possible but not any more.

I recommend going out with a good spotlight meter and or thermocolorimeter to take some readings on location during the type of night you would think is ideal for your film’s ambience and take readings, jot them down and hence you will have a good reference for later choosing your day for night shooting natural ratios. Rainy nights need a slightly different approach since rainy days usually are quite flat and there is little different between shadows and light yet you can still reflect light to emphasise and create depth and drama without looking unnatural. In my experience a well recorded - image and sound- material help very much and are critical for faking any type of during post-production. If the quality is not there it does not matter how much money you spend or know how that you will rarely get a quality even close to the well recorded original by post-production corrections. So pre-production and planning go very far in any special conditions. If you have clear your technical needs for faking day for night and also the directing needs, scenes rehearsed and so forth you can get pretty decent or excellent results with no need to spend more money. Remember that many award winning cinematographers as e.g. Nestor Almendros and others rather us natural light and even plan to avoid using any type of lighting devices.

As for rain unless one has a really huge production budget or owns a studio its is better to shoot under naturally rainy conditions than to fake them. However that does not mean it is not possible to fake them successfully and it has advantages too as security if its raining at night and thinking in using lights. Many have done so often because of situations where the script demanded a rainy day uncompromisingly yet the real location rain did not come due to weather unpredictability or because the production schedule had been displaced enough that maybe rain can not be expected for a whole six-month period. Faking rain has its difficulties amongst them rain direction and intensity but these can be fakes with hoses and fans rented, loaned or made. Again it is a matter of compromise and budget. Yet if you have a flexible crew and a cast (beware of the cast reliability above all since a technician can be replaced even if you rather not but once you start a production replacing and actor can be hell or might mean starting everything all over again).

Today faking is much easier because the raw stock in film or video or digital camera system sensibility and sensors are excellent and allow much more flexibility. In any event all these need preparation and coordination and above all careful planning and referencing for continuity purposes.

When shooting in natural locations you always have the weather variable which here becomes a need - rain specially due to the title of the film I speculate still. Yet often energy access is a big challenge. Most night lights and professional lights need higher voltage, and intensity. Often normal grids can jump when plugging more than one HMI for example and even three or four small tungsten lights might create a lot of problems if the electrical grid at the location is old, not powerful and so forth. This naturally mean generators and noise which can also generate complaints from nearby residents. Additionally to replace the natural light of the moon and its direction normal small light stands are not enough so either a tower must be built, (even if it is as basic as a stand as possible) or a system to attach heavy lights which out of a studio of course might need permissions and that gaffers and lighting electricians and assistants have alas union permits or are qualified.

The problem increases if it combines night and rain since then the possibility for accidents and electrical discharges really increases hence why studios fake rain scene and night scenes but independent productions fake it. The worse case scenario is lighting a real location on a rainy day. These means expenses, permits, not only form the location owners but from the grid managers, and also for the engineers or electricians. In nay case this is quite a detailed subject but as I tried to explain the right know-how can make that faking is as real and the quality as good. Just it is necessary to understand that its not only an economical matter since despite all the money you would still need the know how.

Please understand that I do not have the time to explain everything in detail and even if I did ti would take several shots probably. I still tried to touch upon a complex and long subject which would need much more order and planning to write about however I have tied to mention some things that might help you to consider the issue no matter how ad hoc this explanation is since there is enough literature about the subject if you look for day for night and shooting in location. Here below some links that might help. The you tube video in my opinion would help discourage anyone from trying since it does not look good, at least I think so yet it can be done successfully with much better quality. Sorry if I provide more opinion than actual ordered facts but these is a large topic and I tried to write about issues that I think often are left untold such as leftovers, or problems so forth. Day-for-night shooting seems to have become more common in recent years which goes against the trends of a decade ago. Links below are helpful yet do not believe everything as if it were sacred last link maybe best. Some might need registration and payment yet offer trial periods which you can use to gather and learn and then if you can not afford them just unregister before trial period is over or they will charge you. If you are interested in the long run they might be helpful anyway since the amount for a long period is quite cheap although I personally did not take the time to check prices I deduce from other similar sites like virus protection programs, software and so forth:

How to Turn the Light of Day into the Dark of Night
http://www.school-video-news.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=508:how-to-turn-the-light-of-day-into-the-dark-of-night&catid=27:lighting&Itemid=46

Night Light Tutorial - How to turn the light of day into dark of night
http://www.videomaker.com/video/watch/tutorials/124/night-light-tutorial-how-to-turn-the-light-of-day-into-the-dark-of-night/

Day-For-Night
http://www.photoshopcafe.com/cafe/viewthread.php?tid=19277

Technical Info Day for night and Raining and more
http://www.cinematography.net/Techniques%20TOC.htm

101_0280_thumb
Gareth Spark commented a shot
No-user-picture-set
The night has gone to the dogs. > Co-Writer > Screenplay secret?
by: (null)
There seem to be two approaches to script development on here, some people publish the script and ask for feedback, while others want to play their cards close to their chest until the production process is further advanced. If you want to publish the screenplay you can upload files to tasks and shots. If you want to keep it secret and only reveal it to select collaborators, you can set up a group on here which is only visible to people you choose. You could upload the script (or parts of it) as a task for that group, so that only your co-writers can view it. If you are looking for co-writers though, you need to put some meaty details of what you're writing, to inspire them to want to take part in your production.
822 days ago | 0 Thumb-ups 
I like the third alternative! :) Am going to select some pieces and upload them over the next few days.
No-user-picture-set
(null) commented a shot
No-user-picture-set
The night has gone to the dogs. > Storyboard Artist/Producer > If you need help, ask for it... :)
by: (null)
Hi Gareth, always nice to see some British wreckers on here...! You sound like you're looking for help on quite a number of fronts, maybe it might help if you did a list of everything you need help with and posted them as specific individual tasks in this production? Bear in mind asking for help on here works best if you show you've done a bit of work on the problem. For example if you want costume sketches, you might want to give exact details of the characters. That's what we did on Landing: http://www.wreckamovie.com/tasks/show/750 This site works by inspiring other people to help you, so you need to give them something detailed that gets their creative juices flowing.
823 days ago | 0 Thumb-ups 
Effects-based screenplays don't have to cost a lot, but they do demand a lot of time. The film that led to the creation of Wreckamovie was Star Wreck: In The Pirkinning, which had no budget but took 7 years to make. They made it with the help of people on the internet, so for their next film (Iron Sky) they created Wreckamovie. (Just in case you haven't seen Star Wreck ITP, the effects really are astonishing for an unfunded non-commercial amateur production: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxD-9PSr8VQ )
No-user-picture-set
(null) commented a shot
No-user-picture-set
The night has gone to the dogs. > Co-Writer > Screenplay secret?
by: (null)
There seem to be two approaches to script development on here, some people publish the script and ask for feedback, while others want to play their cards close to their chest until the production process is further advanced. If you want to publish the screenplay you can upload files to tasks and shots. If you want to keep it secret and only reveal it to select collaborators, you can set up a group on here which is only visible to people you choose. You could upload the script (or parts of it) as a task for that group, so that only your co-writers can view it. If you are looking for co-writers though, you need to put some meaty details of what you're writing, to inspire them to want to take part in your production.
823 days ago | 1 Thumb-up 
...or as a third alternative you could publish bits of the script which don't reveal the plot too much. :) Some character sketches sound like a very good idea.
The_night_has_etc
New task: Night shoots and shooting in the rain?

A year back I was working on a Sci-Fi short film which eventually came to nothing because of the perceived expense of the FX. However, reviewing the screenplay for The Night has gone to the dogs, I find there are a few EXT. Night scenes, and two EXT. scenes taing place in the rain. Am I right in thinking these would be pretty tricky/expensive to film? If so, will have to amend the script a little. Any advice would be great.